Sunday, December 28, 2008

Counter Refutation

Assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters

I invited one person to Islam by quoting this text from Bible, telling him that Prophet Muhammad.salla allahu alaihi wa sallam has been mentioned as upcoming prophet for Jews in Bible:


Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him, the Prophet of Islam.

The Biblical prophecies on the advent of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh are evidence of the truth of Islam for people who believe in the Bible.

In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics:

1) That he will be like Moses.

2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.

3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.

Let us examine these three characteristics in more depth:
1) A prophet like Moses:

There were hardly any two prophets who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad . Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Both encountered their enemies and were victorious in miraculous ways. Both were accepted as prophets and statesmen. Both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlook not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well. These include the natural birth, the family life, and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus. Moreover Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of God and not exclusively as a Prophet.

Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: “Now this was John’s testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words “the Prophet” occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18. We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.

2) From the brothers of the Israelites:

Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, i.e. the Ishmaelites. Muhammad , a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed this prophet.

Also, Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His “chosen one” and “messenger” who will bring down a law. “He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope.” (Isaiah 42:4). Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alahi wasallam.

3) God will put His words in the mouth of this prophet:

Also, this prophecy in Deuteronomy mentioned that this prophet will speak the words of God in the name of God. If we looked to the Holy Quran, we will find that all its chapters, except Chapter 9, are preceded or begin with the phrase, “In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.”
Another indication (other than the prophecy in Deuteronomy) is that Isaiah ties the messenger connected with Kedar with a new song (a scripture in a new language) to be sung to the Lord (Isaiah 42:10-11). This is mentioned more clearly in the prophecy of Isaiah: “and another tongue, will he speak to this people” (Isaiah 28:11 KJV). Another related point, is that the Quran was revealed in sections over a span of twenty-three years. It is interesting to compare this with Isaiah 28 which speaks of the same thing, “For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there.” (Isaiah 28:10).

Note that God has said in the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18, “If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy, 18:19). This means that whoever believes in the Bible must believe in what this prophet says, and this prophet is the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu alahi wasallam!!!!!!!
The words of God (the Holy Quran) were truly put into Muhammad’s mouth. God sent the Angel Gabriel to teach Muhammad the exact words of God (the Holy Quran) and asked him to dictate them to the people as he heard them. The words are therefore not his own. They did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the Angel Gabriel. During the life time of Muhammad , and under his supervision, these words were then memorized and written by his companions.


25 Zil Hijja 1429 (December 24, 2008


His response and Refutation

Deuteronomy 18:18

First, the passage says that God will raise up a prophet like Moses, the reason being that the Israelites didn’t want to speak directly with God. The Israelites said, "Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God ... that I die not," and God replied, "They have well spoken that which they have spoken." Hence, when verse 18:15 is taken in context, we see that the Jews were asking for a mediator, someone to stand between them and God just as Moses did. The ultimate fulfillment of this passage would be someone who stands as a permanent mediator between God and man. While Muhammad could certainly be viewed as an intermediary of some sort, the passage seems to fit more comfortably if the Prophet is Jesus. At best, you can argue that Muhammad was a link in the chain of transmission from the Qur’an, from Allah, to Gabriel, to Muhammad, to mankind. But this doesn’t fulfill the prophecy. Muslims don’t believe in the sort of mediator required by Deuteronomy 18. In Christianity, however, Jesus I

On other hand, speaking of Similarites of the Prophet with Moses. Talking of Muhammad and Moses, both encountered their enemies and were victorious. Both were accepted as prophets etc etc.. These are the similarities of Circumstances not Character.. Similar to Moses means Similar to the Moses's Character. Moses was the most humble person ever known in the Bible. Same was Jesus's Character. He didn't say a single harsh word to anyone. Jesus was victorious over the REAL enemies. Spirits of the Evil, he drove out Beelzebub and other evil spirits miraculously from the demon possesed. Jesus was victorious in Redeeming the entire humanity of its sins by dying on the Cross as a sin offering and then resurrected the third day.

The Brother thing. Deut 18:18.
The Lord was very particular about his Rescued Israelites not getting into the practises of the Cannanites. He restricted them and made several laws. They were not allowed to keep the Plunder they got from defeating the Cannanite nations, or they may get attracted towards their customs and start worshipping the idols (which went true later on). The LORD didn't allow the Israelites from Marrying women from Cannanite nations, or they might have defiled their minds talking about their own gods.. (Solomon, the wisest man ever lived in human history fell into the same trap, he crept towards worshipping the idols of his Wives' culture).

There was so much threat from the outside nations. How can the LORD declare that he'll raise a prophet from a nation not from Israel.He said that he'll raise the prophet from "AMONG" their own brothers. Jacob had 12 sons.. based on whose names the tribes of Israel were named. ex: Levites.You can see these 12 were brothers. This sounds more reasonable to choose the prophet from the tribe of Israel only, without including an alien nation and risking a prophet from there.

Messiah and prophet in John 1:19 are the same. JESUS. See John 6:14. The Jews realized that Jesus is the prophet who was to come. But if Jesus would have let them crown him as king, the prophecy wouldn't have come true and Jesus wouldn't be the one to be sacrificed at the cross for our sins. And we (christians) would still be living under LAW and not Grace.
By paying the price for out sins, Jesus led us into a direct connection with the FATHER GOD.

In Christianity, however, Jesus is a permanent mediator: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2:5-6).


29 Zil Hijja 1429 (December 28, 208)


My Refutation

1.Our brother have accepted,"The Israelites said, "Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God ... that I die not," and God replied, "They have well spoken that which they have spoken."Hence, when verse 18:15 is taken in context, we see that the Jews were asking for a mediator, someone to stand between them and God just as Moses did."

Thanks brother!

You accepted that a mediator was required by Israelites which was assured in the verse 18:15.

Mediator means the one with whom God will conversate as you have accepted above.....

It does not include a few words heard by the prophet and the prophet had no way to send a reply.

Did it happened with Jesus in whole of his life?

Not at all.....

Nowhere it is written in Bible.

"Then a voice came from heaven:"You are my beloved son, I am much happy with you."

(Markus : 1: 11)

Then Jesus did not replied to God.

If you could find, then write down in comment's section please.

I must remind you that Moosa alaihissalam (Moses) spoke directly to God.

Now lets see! did Allah speak to Muhammad salla allahu alaihi wa sallam?

Yes! He s.a.w. was even raised above the heavens and had a personal meet with Allah.


2.Then you said,"The ultimate fulfillment of this passage would be someone who stands as a permanent mediator between God and man."

Now please call Jesus for us all JUST ONCE so that we can mediate him to conversate with God!

We will wait, when you are going to call Jesus for us JUST ONCE (you are talking about all time availability of Jesus for conversation)

Now if you say Jesus mediated in his life time and his message to his pupls will be applied foreever.

Then lets see what that message tells us.....

"I will urge the father; and he will give you Paracletos that he will remain with you forever" (Yohanna : 13 : 15)

Thus as the message says that all his pupils have to search for the Paracletos.

Who is Paracletos?

Paracletos means the Praised one.

The Praised one means Muhammad s.a.w.

Now your refutation will be:

"Show us Muhammad s.a.w right now as he is going to be with us permanently!!!

Same way as you were asking the Jesus from us"

This logic have been washed off by your own assumption that his message is the thing to remain with us forever.

Same way, we say that the message which was sent through Muhammad s.a.w. will remain with us forever.


3.Your next words are,"While Muhammad could certainly be viewed as an intermediary of some sort, the passage seems to fit more comfortably if the Prophet is Jesus. At best, you can argue that Muhammad was a link in the chain of transmission from the Qur’an, from Allah, to Gabriel, to Muhammad, to mankind. But this doesn’t fulfill the prophecy. Muslims don’t believe in the sort of mediator required by Deuteronomy 18. In Christianity, however, Jesus I...."

Thank you once again!!!

You said that if one is intermediary, the he is not that prophet as mentioned in the text.

Lets see what the next sentence of Markus says....

"And the Spirit (Gabriel) promptly inspired him (Jesus) to go to forest" (Markus : 1 : 12)

In the case of Muhammad s.a.w., he only recieved Qur'an from Gabriel, but did not follow Gabriel.

Here Jesus is even doing what the Gabriel is ordering.

Thus Jesus is not the prophet as mentioned in that text.


4.You say,"Similar to Moses means Similar to the Moses's Character. Moses was the most humble person ever known in the Bible.Same was Jesus's Character. He didn't say a single harsh word to anyone."

Are you sure that similarity of this kind is sufficient to apply the prophecy?

OK

"But he (Jesus) said to them, "I has been sent to the gone astray sheeps of Israelite lineage."

But she came and said prostrating him,"God! help me"

He (Jesus) told her,"THROWING THE LOAF OF KIDS TO DOGS IS NOT APPROPRIATE"

(Mathew : 15 : 24,25 & 26)

Thus your own statement decides to make the judgment in favour of Muhammad s.a.w.


5.You specify the way to find out the prophecy,"Jesus was victorious over the REAL enemies. Spirits of the Evil, he drove out Beelzebub and other evil spirits miraculously from the demon possesed."

If this is the standard to know a man as prophet, then there are so many Hindu Baba's doing the same job.

They are more appropriate than Jesus as they are available and Jesus is unavailable.


6.You then said,"There was so much threat from the outside nations."

Ohhhh! I will exhaust out thanking you again and again...

Jesus never fought.

He even did not touch a sword in his whole life to protect Israelites.

It means he is not that prophet as per the conditions set by you.

But Muhammad s.a.w. and his companions saved a lot of Israelites as well as other tribes from oppressive governments.

Hence as per your own set conditions, the prophecy suits Muhammad s.a.w.


7.You provided another tool to know who is prophet,"Jesus was victorious in Redeeming the entire humanity of its sins by dying on the Cross as a sin offering and then resurrected the third day."

So the prophecy also applies to Saddam Hussain who got himself hanged for the whole Iraq.....

And regarding resurrection...

No pupil claimed that he has seen Jesus being cricified.

All of his pupils are telling the incident as a story which can be learnt from others also.

When cricifixion is not certain how ressurection will be there?


8.Your next argument is,"He said that he'll raise the prophet from "AMONG" their own brothers. Jacob had 12 sons.. based on whose names the tribes of Israel were named. ex: Levites."

Jesus belong to the lineage of Yahooda. (Mathew : 1: 1-17)

It means that the lineage of Yahooda has been excluded from the 12 sons of Jacob.

Ask why?

Because the text "FROM THEIR BROTHERS" cannot be applied to them.

A Yahooda lineage person cannot be a brother of himself.

Either you please accept that Yahooda is not the son of Jacob or accept that the prophet mentioned is not an Israelite.


9.You quoted,"But if Jesus would have let them crown him as king, the prophecy wouldn't have come true and Jesus wouldn't be the one to be sacrificed at the cross for our sins."

You proved that the characters of Moosa (Moses) and Eesa (Jesus) are different.

Moosa alaihissalm liked to rule Israelites

But Jesus disliked that.

All your points that were refuting against the prophecy to be applied upon Muhammad s.a.w. has been refuted.

30 Zil Hijja 1429 - 1 Muharram 1430 (29 December 2008)

And finally, we muslims are not lawless.We do what Allah says instead of assuming our own theories.

We dont close off the discussions, you are most welcome to send your refutation in comment's section.

I will refresh the post and add up your refutations

Wassalaam

Muhammad Aslam Ibne Meer Al Hindi


His Reply

God bless you.

1 Muharram 1430 (30 December 2008)


My Reply

I was expecting some refutation from you.

1 Muharram 1430 (30 December 2008)


My Reply

You say: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
( Sorah Al-Baqara, Verse 136)

I invite you to Islam.

Further questions are most welcome......

1 Muharram 1430 (30 December 2008)

Wassalaam

Muhammad Aslam Ibne Meer Al Hindi







4 comments:

§Amrit§ said...

God bless you!

Muhammad Aslam محمد أسلم Al Hindi said...

I was expecting some refutation from you!

Muhammad Aslam محمد أسلم Al Hindi said...

You say: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
( Sorah Al-Baqara, Verse 136)

I invite you to Islam.

Further questions are most welcome......

Hamza said...

MashAllah gr8 work brother